The Inspiration of Rassilon

Two big bangs? Eek. That would tie you up pretty much.

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you on the any cross thing. There probably are some I'd hesitate over, but a good author can usually win me over.

I don't know pretty much all of the crosses you've mentioned though! *blush*

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While it's absolutely true that Doctor Who can be crossed with anything, I've read some really rubbish x-overs (no, I'm not going to name names) because it *can* be hard to do it really well as I know 'cos I've tried with Wallace & Gromit, Law & Order: UK, The Adventures of Luther Arkwright, Highlander (unfinished), and Sanctuary (unfinished).

But when it's done well, then it's absolutely brilliant and lots of fun.

Personally I'd love to see some good x-over fics for the following fandoms (fair warning, I'm a huge fan of Martha so most of these feature her!):

The Mentalist - I'm thinking Patrick Jane and Martha would be an interesting combo, because she'd not let him get away with half the cr4p that Lisbon does, after dealing with Ten's cr4p!

Highlander - Martha discovering she's an Immortal, and learning sword-fighting from Methos would be awesome!

Sanctuary - yes, I want to put Martha and Peter Wingfield's James Watson together. So sue me for being a Martha fan AND a Peter W fan! :P

The Scarifyers (ask me for more info if you're interested, but let me just mention that Nick Courtney and Terry Molloy, aka The Brig and Davros play the leads!) - Three and Liz running into Lionheart and Dunning would be awesomesauce on awesomecake!

Queen of Swords - Martha and Ten meeting Dr Robert Helm and the Queen of Swords would be great fun - I can just see the ladies ganging up on the guys! *smirks*

Murdoch Mysteries - Martha and Ten meeting Dr Julia Ogden and Detective William Murdoch - Martha could empathise with Julia over her travails in being a woman Doctor in the c19th.

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INteresting ideas - do you know, I don't think I know a single one of the crossovers, except for having read your comments about some of them! Isn't that shocking? :-)

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Well I should clearly oppress you into watching them so you can write the x-overs for me - since you're Queen of Crossover Fics!

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Eek!

I suppose the only thing I can do in my defence is to work out just how exactly you do file a suit against someone for being a fan of Martha... :lol:

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Ha! You can TRY!

But I warn you I shall just sick James and Alesha onto you! :P

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I warn you I shall just sick James and Alesha onto you! :P

...And following that typo, now I am very very scared...

LOL LOL LOL

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What typo? "Sick" is actually correct, as is "sic" - both variants are in the OED.

So....

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All right, so I'm ignorant and inelegant, and thought you were meaning to type 'stick'. *blush* Am still disturbed by the instant mental image my brain conjured up, though. Eek.

:lol:

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Stick??? Um, no! LOL

Have you not come across the phrase "I'll sick X onto you" before?

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clocketpatch

I did a paper on fic a few years ago and done of the reference books I was using mentioned a Wheel-of-Fortune/Who crossover published in a fanzine back in the eighties. I've been looking for it ever since...

Of course, a game show crossover is weird, because does that count as its own universe or as RPF. Whatever, it still amuses me.

I've been wanting to see a crossover between Who and Dark Angel for a bit. I can just see the Doctor being mistaken for one of the genetic experiments...

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Hah, I've not seen that, but I have seen, a crossover with the radio quiz Just A Minute! and one with Jo and the Doctor in the middle of the Eurovision Song Contest, which would both come under the same category. It doesn't qualify as RPF, no. :-D (

You know, I don't think I watch almost any of the shows the three of you have listed so far - I am safe from any rabid bunnies! :lol:

I just want more B7/DW crossovers. How can there be so few? There should be more, more, I tell you... *cough*

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Panel games? I've done a drabble cross with The News Quiz, which is easy because they just have to discuss a Whoniverse event as if it were news, and three (two drabbles and a cameo) with I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue.

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curuchamion.livejournal.com

I have trouble answering this question because, basically, you give me any two fandoms I know and I can theoretically come up with a crossover bunny - if I don't know of a fic that's already done it! To me, there are no crossover no-nos at all.

(Except LOTR. Somehow, crossing LOTR never quite works. It's so extremely unique.)

I'd like to see more crossovers featuring companions without the Doctor. And if I had to pick one fandom to have more Who crosses in, it'd be Sapphire & Steel!

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You're right. LOTR is a difficult one, although I have seen two DW stories that I liked for it, both short, and one very cracky. :-)

But as a general rule, no. And DW requires an explanation of some kind for the existence of magic, and it depends how the writer pulls that off to retain the integrity of both fandoms for it to work, so that effects a lot of things. I'm often uncomfortable about DW/Harry POtter crossovers, although I know a great drabble...

And: aw, crossover love! ♥

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Middle Earth seems so minutely pinned down and documented by Tolkien that I suspect any crossover character trying to intrude would find themselves like the ghosts in The Great Divorce — unable to affect so much as a blade of grass by their presence.

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Wow, you've read The Great Divorce. And that's a really good analogy, too.

Mind, I do like what

clocketpatch did with Frodo and Nine, in one of those crossover memes: Lands of Fiction.

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Wow, you've read The Great Divorce.

I rather wonder if Lawrence Miles has, too. The description of Mictlan in Alien Bodies reminded me very much of Hell in TGD.

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curuchamion.livejournal.com

O yes indeed. That was awesome.

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It's possible to cross a lot of things with Doctor Who, but I'd hesitate to say 'everything', just in case. Obviously, it depends what type of crossover you're writing. You might manage a Watership Down crossover drabble, for example, but trying to extend it would be difficult. Even if the TARDIS allowed the Doctor and his companions to talk to the rabbit characters, I don't think the rabbits would hang around long enough to discover that.

If you wanted to leave the premise of one or both series intact after the crossover, that would rule out various other possibilities. Particularly if the other series is driven by some long-standing problem that the Doctor could solve in seconds with a wave of the sonic screwdriver. I should think that any Doctor from say, Four, onwards, with a working TARDIS, would be able to get Voyager home, and he'd have to have quite a good reason not to.

There could also be Universes where the problem would be differences in the underlying philosophy: 'Things are dreadful and this Must Not Change' versus 'Nine times out of ten, things will be considerably better once the Doctor has paid a call'.

One other crossover thought: I don't much care for the thing where two villains in the different universes are identified as the same entity, despite having precious little in common. This is directed, I hasten to add, more at things like the New Adventures' habit of trying to force all sorts of Doctor Who monsters into the Lovecraft pantheon, rather than casting gags about characters who happen to be played by the same actor; heaven knows I'm as guilty of that as anyone!

The other thing that can cause trouble in a crossover is where you've got two sets of heroes, either of whom would normally be expected to be able to solve the problem on their own, and the author has to contrive situations where they're both necessary. Some ways around that might be:

Have the villain from one setting battle the hero of the other.
As curuchamion suggests above, have companions going solo.
Have the two sets of heroes working at cross-purposes. Here's a skeletal plot I came up with for a Star Trek TNG crossover, though I'm sure it would work just as well with other Trek crews: The Enterprise arrives at a planet, which has a problem with rock monsters or earthquakes or a falling moon or whatever. There's a fairly simple fix, which they proceed to put into effect. At the same time, the Doctor and his companion have also landed on the planet, and the Doctor also attempts to correct the problem. The two proposed solutions interact damagingly, making matters worse. Repeat two or three more times, until in the end the last two desperate plans (by this point, not expected to work) happen to reinforce each other, leaving everyone relieved but completely baffled as to what happened. Picard and the Doctor would never meet, though they'd just miss bumping into each other a couple of times.

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Okay, the worst things anyone (including me) can say to me is you can't do X in a fic. I was sitting here, agreeing with you about the Watership Down thing, when three potential solutions presented themselves:

1. involving dreams and myths in some way (i.e. maybe the presence of the TARDIS getting into Fiver's dreams)
2. You have a central threat that the Doctor tries to stop that also affects the rabbit community and tell it in alternating sections where, like yr ST idea they interact ("I say, this wire's been chewed right through!") but obvious not knowingly. (And for some reason, it was clearly a crossover involving Four, Harry and Sarah.) That, I think, if someone could do it - and my WD memories are bit vague, and even though I've read the book, still clouded by the terror the mythical bits at the start of the film brought in - could be really clever and fun.
3. You try the slightly cracky approach and make it a double crossover also involving Dr Dolittle.

Actually, I think with the second problem, there are few examples where you can't use the historical get-out clause for some reason (importance, being too far in the future, fixed points, yadda yadda yadda) not being able to meddle. Same reason you can't bust Anne Boleyn out of the Tower of London... And Voyager is a bit of a bad example, because the show treats Voyager's ending up in the Delta Quadrant as a Signifcant Event (both in consequences of the trip, and in the disappearance being like the Titanic sinking), not to mention the incredible timey-wimey-ness that must surround it, especially when you even try to induce a headache by thinking about the ending. (I have a DW/Voyager WIP somewhere that doesn't even consider any of this because I assumed all that as read). Which brings me to your heroes at odds things, because if you can picture the scenario where the Doctor won't use his TARDIS, and Captain Janeway discovers that... well, heaven help the Doctor. Or the Doctor might end up trying to fix the tangle Admiral Janeway makes of time (which would have the same potential complication as above, plus the two Janeways probably on different sides of the argument), or, of course, you have the situation where he can take them home, but not the ship, and Janeway won't go without the ship (I think they did this somewhere along the line, I have a feeling). I'm waffling a lot, but hope that makes sense. In fact, a DW crossover that had the Doctor and Janeway head to head over her cavalier attitude to time travel, I would adore! With her popping his balloon of Time Lord pomposity as much as him putting her straight, obviously. :-)

As regards the two heroes not being needed, well, most shows (not so much DW, though), do tend to have a plot where they have to find someone to help them in some way - and the Doctor slots nicely into that role. Plus, it could be more a character piece, and then saving the day is an optional extra.

But crosses with companions are fun, your funny spoil=sport TNG crossover sounds v entertaining, and I agree about not making all villains connected. Except I think Wolfram & Hart, and Torchwood should enter into some sort of dodgy negotiations at some point.

On thinking about it, I wonder about crosses with things that are mentioned as fictional within DW (Harry Potter, Agatha CHristie) but it doesn't stop me writing things with Miss Marple in! (I think Miss Marple and Poirot just exist, like Sherlock Holmes... :-D)

I am v amused now that I could work a crossover for Watership Down! Mind you, I have to say, I'd have a problem with Redwall. ("Okay, we've found a lot of mice and badgers wearing armour, and building a fort... Is that normal?" And somehow, already this is a very weird fic with Eleven, Amy and Rory. See... anything, you can cross anything... :lol:)

Edited Date: 2010-08-15 08:38 pm (UTC)

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For your Watership Down point 1 crossover: Fiver meets the Dream Lord? That might work, since he (Fiver, I mean) has talked to humans while dreaming in canon. In fact, 'crossover characters get to share a dream with the Doctor and the Dream Lord' sounds like it's got potential to be a new sub-genre all by itself. And each Doctor would have to have their own Dream Lord. Five::Ronnie Barker, Seven::John Thaw?

When it comes to Voyager, I've only watched a handful of episodes so I'll readily accept the 'fixed point' explanation. Though it might be fun to see Janeway try to hijack the TARDIS; between her crew's unfamiliarity with the systems and the TARDIS's legendary unreliability, they could end up in some amusing places.

As for crosses with things that are fictional in the Whoniverse, there's the Literary Agent Hypothesis (already invoked to explain how the Doctor has met both Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes), there's the Land of Fiction, and if all else fails there's Storytime.

In general: Trying to come up with crossovers that won't work does seem to lead to a desire to make them work, doesn't it?

Edited Date: 2010-08-15 10:17 pm (UTC)

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I have to ask... why is Five's Dream Lord Ronnie Barker? :-)

:lol: That does sound like fun. Mind you, if it's post-Seven of Nine's arrival, they'd probably fly it better than he does, and they'd still have a Doctor on board. He'd be annoyed.

*nods*

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Ronnie Barker... seemed like a good idea at the time. I was trying to picture someone who'd be very physically different from Peter Davison, and up popped the mental image of Barker in one of those 'spokesman' rôles.

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It's a nice image. It just wouldn't have occurred to me. I love the idea of him now. I'm torn as to whether I'd really pick him for Four. There seems to be some strange thing that dictates that Five's Dream lord should be played be Robert Hardy! :lol: (I think I like your idea best...)

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I wonder about Fulton McKay for Four's Dream Lord (since legend has it he was a candidate for Four proper...)

I do like the idea of Robert Hardy as a Dream Lord, though.

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pedanther

Mind you, I have to say, I'd have a problem with Redwall. ("Okay, we've found a lot of mice and badgers wearing armour, and building a fort... Is that normal?"

Since there aren't any humans around (there aren't, are there?), clearly it's an alien planet where the local intelligent life just happens to resemble Earth animals. Possibly in the same part of the galaxy the Judoon come from.

(Or somewhere near the planet my hypothetical Lion King crossover was set on.)

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No, I don't think there are... but there's this sense it could be this whole world that is out of sight of humans. Mind you, it's got its own elaborate mythology and all. I lost track somewhere after about the first seven, which I read when I was a teen, and he was still going with the things last time I looked. (How many times can you write the mice and the Badgers fought the Nasty Weasel/Fox/Ferret and won? 8-o)

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curuchamion.livejournal.com

LOL, yeah, the last one I read was about number... twelve, I think. I just can't get behind some of the changes he's making to the mythology trying to cram more books in. And the first seven books were definitely the best.

(Can you tell I was a massively Srs Bisnes Redwall fan when I was younger? *g*)

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pedanther

Crossover bunnies I've been visited by include:

Modesty Blaise: While the Doctor and Modesty put their heads together to save the day, Leela and Willie compare bosses, discuss knife-throwing technique, etc.

The Anubis Gates: Irving Braxiatel wants a copy of William Ashbless's memoirs for posterity - which entails going back, tracking Ashbless down, and persuading him to write them.

Kage Baker's Company series: The Doctor keeps running into agents of the Company in different time periods, leaving them puzzled as to who he is and how he fits into what they believe they know about history and time travel. (I have an answer in mind, but I don't know if it actually works, because so far I've only read one of the Company novels and I gather the series does an Everything You Know Is Wrong moment later on.)

The latter two are both interesting in that they're crossovers with works that have time travel, with rules that initially seem to contradict the observable rules of the Whoniverse. I think they're doable, though.

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Well, I think everything's do-able, don't I? I'm not going to argue! :lol:

Again, not ones where I really know the cross, though, sadly. I like the sound of the middle one particularly. Maybe just because 'archaeological shenanigans' always seems to promise a lot of fun. And old maps and things.

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